John and Alene Gabriel talk about how to manage our inner critics and the benefits of having your own board of advisors.

 

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Identifying Your Inner Critics or Gremlins

What are typical things your inner critic says to you? This is that voice that talks you out of certain things and encourages you to play it safe and maintain the status quo. It may be a critical voice or mantra you repeat to yourself that stops you from taking action or committing 100%.

Creating Your Own Board of Advisors

If you could have a group of people from anywhere in the world (living or dead) to act as a board of trusted advisors for your life, who would they be?

Consider capturing your board of advisors in the form of collage:

  1. Search Google Images, stock photo sites or magazine for images that represent your members

  2. Good places to search

  1. Give each image a label summarizing the role it represents

  2. Create a collage of the images

  3. Save your collage in a format that is easily accessible

  • Wallpaper on your computer
  • Hang it on wall near where you work
  • Save it to Dropbox so you can access it from a mobile devices
  1. Implement a daily practice that helps you to check in with your board of advisors on a regular basis.

You may also want to do a similar exercise to capture and call out your inner critics.

Anthony Ongaro’s Board of Directors

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Transcript

This transcript was created automatically and may contain small errors.

John: Today I’m having another conversation with Alene Gabriel about coaching. So our intention is to have a conversation around 2 different concepts and tools that both of us kind of use in coaching, maybe some more than others. And these tools are also very useful in regular life, at least from my own experience. So When Alene and I were going back and forth on like, what are we going to talk about today? I had the idea of talking about, this is kind of a CTI concept called captain and crew. That didn’t land so much with Alene. She actually had this other topic that she brought in, and here’s how she kind of presented it. And I think it’s a great way to kick things off. And I think there’s probably a linkage between your topic and mine.

Alene: Hmm.

John: Yeah. Yeah, how about if I read what you kind of sent me and then you can clarify and focus us and we’ll go from there. Sound good?

Alene: Great.

John: Alright, so here’s what Eileen says. Something I have been hearing a lot lately from multiple sources is this idea that great coaches and great leaders are never uncertain, are never lazy, never have an off day, etc. Definitely saboteur words and thoughts, and I think is a common way of thinking among, well, everyone. I wonder if there might be something about that topic and then be able to link that to captain and crew and how those support us when those kinds of thoughts abound. So saboteur, what is it?

Alene: Right. So that’s definitely our CTI word for it. And I know gremlin is more a word that speaks to you and other people even kind of connect with the idea of an inner critic, right? That voice that tells us you’re not good enough, you’re not fill in the blank enough, whatever that is. And, you know, what I’ve been hearing recently is this idea that people who are successful, whether it’s great coaches, whether it’s great leaders, that they’re always on. They never have a bad day. They’re never lazy. They’re never down on themselves. And it’s so interesting because I’m hearing this from people who I consider to be great coaches and great leaders. And so it just, it So pointed out to me the fact that we all have those moments, even folks who are in a great place, they still have those moments of doubt or still have those moments where that voice, that mean, nasty little voice comes in and goes, you’re lazy. You’re not working very hard. You should try harder. Who are you to do this big work?

John: And should, I think should is one of their favorite. The gremlins love they should a lot.

Alene: They like to should all over you.

John: It’s a pretty messy place.

Alene: It sure is. It sure is. Yeah.

John: That’s one of the— for me, I’m curious what it is for you. When I hear someone shoulding on themselves, that’s when I tend— or I’m shoulding on myself. That’s when I know the gremlins are around. What do you hear? What do you look for?

Alene: So that, that’s a great one. And that’s one that I— is quick, you’re quick to pick up on. The really tricky ones are those gremlins that are really pragmatic and logical because— Ooh. Exactly. Those are the ones that kind of get you, and they get you with logic that seems smart, and you’re being cautious and thoughtful.

John: And wise.

Alene: And wise and safe and, you know, thoughtful about what, what your next step is. And a lot of those gremlin voices can really lull people because They’re actually ways of holding them back saying, oh, no, no, let’s, you know, keep calm. Let’s not rush into this. And sometimes rushing is needed, or sometimes rushing is just the thing that you should do. But it’s those logic voices that also come from smart places. You know, as a kid, you’re not supposed to rush around because you’ll knock into things or you’ll trip and fall or, you know, things that will physically happen. And we sort of outgrow those, but we keep those messages. And they lull us because we’ve heard them for so long and they made sense for so long. That we apply them to situations that now they’re not as helpful.

John: Ooh, and the thing that popped in my head there was too, a lot of times we think that we’re honoring our values.

Alene: Mm, yes.

John: Oh, I’m honoring this thing that is really, really important to me. Integrity, or for me, these are mine: integrity, honesty, being really deliberate and intentional.

Alene: Right. So being deliberate and intentional is something that’s important to you. And for example, integrity, If you are wanting to do something that you’re really feeling a fire towards and it’s something that you feel strongly and passionately about, that might actually in that moment be in conflict with thoughtfulness and deliberation when you want to just go out and do it. So even that, it could be 2 very true values that just are in conflict in that moment.

John: Another interesting part about this, and I think especially in the context of coaching, is the idea that the saboteur or the gremlins, they don’t ever 100% go away, that we can’t like completely remove them from our lives, which I think is a paradox in the context of coaching, where coaching is often like, you know, live the life you’ve always wanted, it can be different, it can be 100% better, like let’s do this.

Alene: Right.

John: And gremlins were kind of like, well, yeah, but So, so what are your thoughts on that, this idea that we can kind of neutralize them but that we never completely get rid of them?

Alene: Yeah, well, so I think some of that comes from our desire— like, we don’t want to hear those nasty voices, so we sort of hope we can just get rid of them. And the one thing I’ll counter— this is maybe a little controversial— is there, there sometimes is some useful kernel of information we can take from them. It’s just that it’s shrouded in yuckiness and bad feelings. So having that gremlin, maybe that’s really pragmatic and saying, okay, slow down, take your time, whoa, don’t do anything. There may be a piece of that says, hang on, maybe there is something that you want to think about here. And then there’s a whole bunch of the other stuff that’s saying, don’t do that, don’t do that, that you just want to get rid of. Right. And so some of it is learning to hear the message and You know, peeling away all the mud that’s on top of that little nugget that you want to keep. So there’s some value in having that, you know, a little bit of devil’s advocate, so to speak, that’s in there to kind of keep you from floating off into space. So, but it is about getting rid of the nasty tonality that makes us feel bad as we’re hearing that input.

John: And I think you said it earlier, which is one thing that I look for, which is typically the gremlins They are fat, dumb, and happy when they are maintaining the status quo.

Alene: Exactly.

John: So that’s like, they’re— they, they just could not be happier, and they’re rejoicing when they, when they have us like just embracing the status quo and not changing.

Alene: Right, exactly. They’re just laying out on their chaise lounge, picking up their piña colada, having a nice little sunbathe and hanging out.

John: So what are some of your techniques For maybe yourself, and then maybe what, what type of techniques do you do with clients when you’re aware of these things to make them go away or to put them back in their cage?

Alene: For myself, it’s a, it’s a big step mostly to identify the voice and to be able to separate it, because a lot of times when the thoughts— we have so many thoughts. I mean, I’ve heard people cite that we have 60,000 to 80,000 thoughts a minute or something. Whoa. And so, like some crazy number, maybe don’t quote me on that again, but it’s some crazy number of thoughts that we’re having. And, it’s everything like, oh, it’s sunny outside, the leaves are blowing, there must be wind, all these different things that just shoot through your mind. And, to really be able to parse out what is information that I need to take in and do something with and what is irrelevant. And sometimes, those information pieces come wrapped up together. That’s that gremlin voice where maybe there’s something to hear and Maybe there’s stuff to get rid of. So, a big part of what I do for myself, and this is what I do with my clients, is helping them really hone in on and identify when that information is coming from a gremlin versus coming from something external versus coming from someone in their captain and crew so that you can start to hear it differently and identify those voices differently. Because otherwise, it just, it gets mixed in with all the other information that you want to keep. And then that’s when we start to really believe, oh, it’s true, I can’t possibly do this thing, I’m not good enough, or I’m not smart enough, or I’m not tall enough, or whatever it is.

John: And then we just stay the way we are.

Alene: Right. And we, we stay safe and small and kind of, you know, we have this just low level of life to us. Our aliveness is dimmed.

John: One thing that I’ve tried, and I got this from my own coach, was— and we’ll talk about this a little bit— what, what captain and crew is. So I’ll maybe I’ll get into it just a little bit here. So the idea of captain and crew is this idea that there are different people that help inform us and help guide and lead us. So do you remember what some of them are? There’s like the appreciator.

Alene: Mm-hmm.

John: The intuitive one.

Alene: The observer, I think, is one of them.

John: The captain. They’re kind of maybe the ringleader that kind of coordinates all these people. Yeah.

Alene: Or just that main encouraging voice.

John: Yes. And the idea is that it’s the collection or the collective of these people or these things. Like for different people, sometimes some people it’s animals, sometimes it’s real people. What were some of the others? Characters. Characters.

Alene: I even have someone I know who has a spice As one of theirs, just to remind them to, you know, keep things flavorful and interesting.

John: I love it. I love it. And people give these things different names too. So our formal training, captain and crew, I’ve heard everything from the— my people call them— this is my Jedi Council, board of directors, board of advisors, circle of trust. Call it whatever you want. But it’s this idea that it’s this positive collective that gives us insights and helps us move forward when maybe we’re not quite sure what to do.

Alene: I love that you call it a positive collective, because that sort of conjures to mind, you know, you have different things that go on in your life, and there’s sort of different people you call for things. Like, you might have the one friend that’s always really sympathetic going, oh, I’m sorry to hear that. That sounds tough. And they’re really gentle and sweet. Or maybe you have that friend who gets mad on your behalf and gets really indignant and is like, Beep, beep, beep. This is bleeping out their expletives as they’re on your behalf of like, well, goddamn it. Come on, get with it. And so, in real life, real people that you might turn to in different instances, and it’s kind of like that, but it’s when in that moment where maybe you’re not turning to another physical person, but you’re just going, there’s some part of you that has something positive here or some way to put things in a new perspective that’s Productive.

John: Yes. What— just to go a little bit further, what I’ve done with this is I have pictures that I’ve put into a collage of these different people or animals that represent these different things. I took that same concept, getting back to the, the gremlins, and in one particular coaching session, my coach observed— I think she said, she said, it seems like you’ve got a whole parade of gremlins today. And I was like, yeah, I kind of do. She’s like, she’s like, this gremlin parade is quite something. She said, who do we have here? And as we started talking about it, so often there’s this notion of just a saboteur, there’s a negative voice. But what was really helpful in this exercise with her was to say, oh my goodness, there’s, there’s a lot of different negative voices and they’re saying different things. Right. They have different agendas. And the chorus of this agenda is just defeating. And so if we can kind of sort out like, oh, we’ve got these, these 3 over here. So what I did was I created a collage of these negative voices. And, and one thing— so I’ve done a couple of things with this. And again, you don’t have to be a coach or even a client to practice some of these things. I think this can work for anyone. Oh, wow. So what I do is— there’s a couple of things I’ve done. One is if I’m flailing in a particular day and I’m not getting anywhere, is if I can have the presence of mind to say, hey, is there a gremlin present?

Alene: Hmm.

John: And if I can take it a step further and say, which gremlin’s present? And then if I can have even more, even further, which is, hey, go look at that picture, silly. Looking at that picture will often like, oh. So one of my, one of my gremlins is a drill sergeant. So I found this picture of a drill sergeant. You can see like the veins bulging out of this guy’s neck as he’s screaming at someone. And so sometimes I’ve got the drill sergeant that’s saying, John, you need to work harder, faster, and you suck. I mean, you should have been done like 3 hours ago. What is your problem? Like, just— I’ve never been in the military, but I can only imagine what it’s like to just get screamed at mercilessly.

Alene: Right. And that conjures up from Forrest Gump when he’s in the army and he’s got the drill sergeant yelling in his face.

John: Yes, yes. And so the power of realizing, oh, The drill sergeant’s present. Okay, let me take a step back. Let me get regrounded. What do I want to do about this? Do I want to tell him to go sit in the corner? Do I want to just acknowledge that he’s there and say, oh, like you were saying earlier, there’s a little value here. Yeah, I need to, I need to be aware of the fact that I am wasting some time today. But you know what? I really don’t know what I’m doing on this project. So of course I’m wasting time.

Alene: Right. And that’s where it comes in of what’s the useful part of this information. So maybe if you, if In that moment where you sit and you say, for example, okay, I’m wasting time. Well, it’s because I don’t really know what I’m doing. Being able to identify that is helpful and you can actually do something with that now instead of just languishing and feeling like a lazy turd sitting there not getting anything done.

John: Exactly. Yeah. And that’s— yeah, lazy turd. That could be another one. Maybe you want a picture of a turd. I don’t know.

Alene: Yeah. Well, and what you’re speaking to is how I look at it too, which is just getting into a place where you can identify what those voices are, what they’re saying, where it might be coming from, because then you have a chance to make a conscious choice about what you want to do and go from there. Otherwise, we’re just sort of defaulting into acting without maybe knowing why we’re acting or what’s doing it. We’re just kind of being driven by this yuckiness.

John: Well, and it tends to pile on. Like, I’ve witnessed situations, um, where, like, say someone repeatedly out loud was like, you are so stupid, you idiot. Like, why? Like, how did you do this so wrong? And, and I had to wonder, like, oh my goodness, if you tell yourself that all day long,

Alene: yeah,

John: what value is that providing, right? Zero. Like, I think there’s this notion of, oh, I’m getting— it’s cathartic, I’m, I’m reminding myself that I screwed up. But, like, Ultimately, it’s not taking you anywhere positive.

Alene: Right. It reminds me also the way, and this is a little bit tangential, but the way feedback can often be delivered, like in a corporate setting. When someone says like, well, this wasn’t very good work, that’s not helpful, right? You don’t know why or how you might do it differently. Or similarly, on the flip side, when someone goes, oh yeah, great job, keep it up. Okay, well, what made it great? Like, what part do I keep up? And so it’s very similar. Like those gremlins don’t get very specific because they just want you to feel bad and not move. Don’t change.

John: Yes.

Alene: Stay right where you are.

John: Yeah, back to the status quo.

Alene: Yes, exactly.

John: Yeah, so, so I mentioned, you know, the, the during the day check-in with them. Another approach I’ve done is just starting the day, maybe as part of my little morning coffee, just, just pulling up my little picture and saying, not, hey, can I find someone that’s present today? But, Is anyone present? And some, some mornings, some really good mornings, it’s like, huh, they’re all kind of in their cages and quiet and nobody’s really rattling the bars. Or, or it’s like, ooh, this other guy is really— oh, I didn’t realize he’s at— oh my goodness, he’s been active for the last couple hours. I didn’t even realize. In fact, he’s been around since I woke up this morning. Okay, what do I want to do about that? So it can be kind of a really conscious way of centering the day without getting too negative.

Alene: Yeah. And what you’re speaking to there that I really like is getting really present with what’s going on with you. And maybe that is sort of a quiet morning ritual of like, where am I at this morning? Am I feeling kind of down and don’t really know why? Or am I feeling excited? Am I feeling motivated? Am I just kind of very plateaued right now? So that’s, that’s the first step in any moment, whether it’s the beginning of your day or later, of checking in with what, what’s going on with you.

John: How do you work with people in terms of identifying this thing? Like, do you have a question that you do when you first start coaching someone? Like, how do you identify the saboteur gremlins that someone has?

Alene: Yeah, good question. So there’s a way in which, like you said earlier, I listen for the shoulding. And so that’s a big tip-off. And sometimes I kind of ease in, like, we won’t necessarily talk about it right up front. But when I start to hear that a few times, I’ll string together that pattern for them because oftentimes others won’t hear it as they’re saying it. And I’ll say, hey, you know, this is sort of the 3rd time in our conversation I’m hearing should, and this is what I’m hearing you should be doing. This is kind of that thread or that theme. What’s that about? And then sometimes, like I said, sometimes they don’t even notice that they’ve done it. So, finding that common point, and then there starts— something comes out of that, right? There’s some story that comes out of this thread. And then, that’s where we get into maybe identifying, is it sort of a common voice that’s always there? And, is that like your grandmother who’s standing over you with a wooden spoon and just, you know, whatever it is? And so, sometimes that’s how we identify it together is just through what comes out in these moments. And usually, the gremlins are there when you’re kind of up to something or you’re considering something big. Yes.

John: Oh, then they often bring it.

Alene: Oh yeah, that’s when they come out in droves.

John: Yes, yes. So one way I like to do it is when I begin working with people, I ask— I have— it’s called a discovery questionnaire. And so there’s a series of questions, and this is a question that I ask, and I’ll just put it out there if people are listening to this saying, yeah, I still don’t get this. So here’s how I go about asking. The question is, what are typical things your inner critic says to you? This is that voice that talks you out of certain things and encourages you to play it safe and maintain the status quo. It may be a critical voice or mantra you repeat to yourself that stops you from taking action or committing 100%.

Alene: Oh, what a great question.

John: Yeah. So anything else on gremlins, saboteurs, before maybe we kind of talk about the positive— the positive crew? Yeah, the gremlin crew.

Alene: I think the only thing I’d wrap up to say is to normalize it a little bit, that we all have it. And I think we’re— we have varying levels of clarity on where it’s coming from at different times. So, um, for those who feel like they’re the only ones who feel that way, or they’re feeling especially attacked, we all hear them. And this is a great topic to work on in coaching too, to work on quieting that or getting what’s good from it and getting rid of the rest.

John: What I thought was interesting there, there’s almost like a meta gremlin there, which is I’m the only one that has these. Other people don’t.

Alene: Right, exactly. Yes. I mean, that is a gremlin voice too. Like, boy, you’re such a loser. You’re having all these thoughts and everyone else is just going along having a great old day.

John: Right, right. Alright. So as we shift to captain and crew, board of directors, positive collective, like whatever you want to call them. So the question that I usually ask to kick this off, I’ll read my question and then I’m curious how you do this with people if you do. The question that I ask people is, if you could have a group of people from anywhere in the world, living or dead, to act as a board of trusted advisors for your life, who would they be? And I’ve had everything from movie stars to rap stars to politicians to animals. You mentioned spices. So that’s how I kind of kicked that part off. How, how do you go about that?

Alene: Yeah, I love that idea. And it— the way I think about it, and that actually really helped me, and I’ve used this a few times with some clients, is to talk about it like the Pixar movie Inside Out, where there are those characters that are controlling the girl as she’s going along. So there’s Joy, and she’s the happy one, and she’s played by Amy Poehler. So funny, and then there’s disgust, and then there’s anger. And so, they sort of take turns manning the controls of what the girl is doing. And so, sometimes I use that to kind of point out how we have different voices at different times and some are helpful in some situations. And that really seems to resonate, of course, because it’s a cute movie and it’s funny and, of course, heart-wrenching. Like all Pixar movies, you somehow end up crying.

John: I haven’t seen that one. I just put it on my list.

Alene: You’ve got to see it. It’s great. And with this whole concept, you’ll get a lot out of it too. But sometimes I just— there are certain people who are a little more receptive to things that are ethereal and sort of outlandish or creative or different.

John: Woo-woo. I call it woo-woo. You want to get a little woo-woo with me?

Alene: Right. Some might call it woo-woo. And so, For those who aren’t, and they might have a little more trouble, you know, with this idea, I will sometimes just talk about it with them as, what are the voices that encourage you? Like, which voices do you rely on that seem to have sort of a deep knowing that makes you feel more comfortable, or you kind of go, oh yeah, okay, I’ve got that? And so we’ll just start there and kind of build, like, what does that voice say? What does that one tune into? What does What does that know about you that in this moment you may have just lost touch with?

John: Hmm. And then how do you have them like capture it or anchor it or something that they can come back to?

Alene: Yeah. So sometimes I’ll ask them to draw something, just a little caricature, especially if they’re sort of an artistic type. What you said before is a great way too, which is to have them find a picture, whether again, if it’s a real person, they might just be able to find a picture of that person or sometimes it’s even a place that sort of puts them in a different state of mind. So, having them find a physical representation of it whether it’s a picture or a painting or even sometimes I will suggest sort of a talisman of sorts. So, something they can wear or keep in their pocket that’s a reminder to them.

John: Hmm.

Alene: So, it might be a bracelet or a necklace or a lot of people carry around like a rabbit’s foot. So, something that they can sort of physically touch and get tuned into, like, okay, wait a minute, pause, get back to center. Let’s not go off on these gremlin tangents. Well, I’m curious for you. So you said you kind of asked that board of directors question of your clients. How, how does that tend to resonate with them?

John: Yeah, the board of directors, it resonates with some people, and I encourage people to just kind of pick their own term. A lot of times this idea of, you know, who would you like to have advise in your life, or who— another, another way to come at this too is like, who is someone you totally respect? So—

Alene: Ah, yes.

John: I’ve had people use sports figures. And so if, you know, I’ll just, uh, I’ll make up one. Tom Brady. You know, like, Tom Brady is on their crew, quarterback for the Patriots. What is it about Tom Brady, you know? Or what is a— and, and this is how it can be really useful, you know. What is one aspect of Tom Brady that you totally respect? Well, he’s totally cool under pressure. Even when the Patriots are down by 40 points, he doesn’t give up. He doesn’t even look like he’s even worried. He just gets in there and does his job, and then they win the game.

Alene: Yeah.

John: So, so Tom Brady is kind of the cool, collected, gets-the-job-done guy for you. What kind of, you know, what’s the essence of that? Or what label would you like to give Tom Brady? And sometimes, sometimes we dial that in with a couple words, and sometimes it’s just Tom Brady.

Alene: Yeah.

John: And then the next place we’ll go with that is, okay, uh, you’ve got this difficult situation at work with this very Hostile team that you’re going to deal with. And this sounds cheesy, but until you do it, I’m telling you, this stuff works. What would it look like to show up at this meeting like Tom Brady?

Alene: Right. Yeah.

John: And then suddenly the wheels get turning because it’s like, oh, well, I would be grounded and cool and collected. Great. What do you need to do to do that?

Alene: Oh,

John: I need to clear my schedule the morning before that, the whole morning before that meeting. Great. Will you do that? Oh, I don’t know. Like, how bad do you want this? I was like, okay, I’ll clear my schedule. Good idea. You’re right. Um, and so it can kind of like, it kind of helps the rest of those dominoes fall.

Alene: And you know what you’re talking about too is really interesting is where it connects with values. Like there’s a lot of, a lot of these coaching concepts and what we do have so many connections and it’s just getting clued into what’s important to you? How do you want to be? How— what do you need in order to be that way? And sometimes it’s pulling up that caricature to go in there and sort of hone and harness that part of you that already is that, like you have access to it.

John: Totally.

Alene: And so what you’re saying, like why someone, for example, wants this, you know, rap artist or this character or whatever it is, there’s something that’s important to them that that person brings. And they need to find their way of bringing that out in themselves.

John: Yeah, and this is the beauty of doing this work in advance. So I was in a situation myself where, again, my coach was like, okay, so it sounds like— and what I hear you saying too is showing up, like how do you want to show up? And so my coach said, it sounds like you want to show up at this meeting differently, or this situation, this crisis. I said, yeah, I totally do. I said, okay, who do you want to show up with? But well, it was kind of a twofold. It was like, who do you want to show up as, or who on your crew could inform you as to how you want to show up? And one of my crew members is a Navy SEAL.

Alene: Oh my.

John: And so, so I, I— and his name’s Jocko, and he’s written a book called Extreme Ownership. And anyone out there kind of that knows that book kind of knows who he is. Okay, so the challenge was What would it look like to show up at this meeting like Jocko?

Alene: Hmm.

John: I was like, whoa.

Alene: And then it was like—

John: and it was— and we did all kinds of stuff with it too, including like embodying, like stand up like you think Jocko stands up.

Alene: With hands on your hips?

John: Yeah.

Alene: Muscles flexed.

John: Yeah. And it was really powerful because I think I— I think from that I took of like, oh, when I’m standing like physically in this stance, I have more creativity, I have more energy, and I feel like I have a little more authority and clarity of thought. So I rearranged my workspace so that I stood. And from that, what’s interesting, from that I found that I, I do almost all my coaching now standing up. Not so that— not, not so that— let me be really clear— not so that I can be Jocko with my clients, but—

Alene: Right.

John: I found that standing up was more active. There was like, like just more good things kind of floated in and out of my mind than when I was like kind of seated, kind of hunched over my desk and my papers. It was standing up where I could walk around, write, walk around, do different things. So

Alene: yeah,

John: you were gonna say something?

Alene: Well, it— as you’re talking, it occurs to me that it’s a way It’s a tool for us to use to just have more access to more parts of ourselves and to be able to bring out those different parts when we need them. So it kind of— it’s like unclogging a drain, right? And just let things be able to flow through whenever you need them.

John: Yeah. And whatever you need, like, it may not— it’s not always Jocko. Like, if I showed up as Jocko every day of my life, well, one, it wouldn’t be me, right? It probably rubbed people the wrong way.

Alene: Right. Yeah.

John: So who’s— I’m curious, like, who’s— who is it? Do you want to share anyone from your crew that you like to go to?

Alene: Yeah. So funny that you mentioned that you have this Navy SEAL. So I have one of my instructors when I was doing Krav Maga, which is Israeli hand-to-hand combat that they teach as self-defense.

John: Wow.

Alene: Yeah, I had no idea. Right.

John: So you could totally kick my butt.

Alene: Only if I needed to. So one of my crew is one of the instructors I had who was just this beefy Israeli guy who, you know, would kick some major arse. And so whenever I’m feeling kind of weak or like, oh, I can’t do this, I sort of channel that energy of just getting in there and fighting my way out. So sort of similar, like when I just need to bring in some grit and toughness. And then I also have one— I used to love the show Gilmore Girls, and Lorelai is the mom who— she’s just really funky and creative and fun and spunky, like that friend you just always have a good time with. And sometimes I bring her out when I’m getting sort of just down and droopy and mopey, and she just kind of picks it up and is lively.

John: I love it.

Alene: So just totally different characters and different people that bring out different parts of me. when I’m feeling different ways.

John: I love it. I remember when this was first presented in the classes that we took, I didn’t get it. And I think, well, I think for me, I would teach this concept a little differently than it was taught to us. With us, it was taught through the lens of a visualization, which kind of went— the visualization went sideways for me. Um, sometimes visualizations have worked, but to make it really practical for maybe the more pragmatic folks out there, one approach I’ll suggest, and I’ve kind of alluded to it already, is getting, you know, make a list of these, these things or these concepts or these people that really inform you, and then just do a Google search. There’s a, there’s a separate tab in Google called Images, and I’ll find an image that I like, and I’ll right-click on that image and save it to my computer. And then I’ll take a whole bunch of these images and then put them into a collage using a a collage maker or however you’re graphically inclined.

Alene: Yeah, that’s great because it keeps it very visual and keeps it alive when you kind of need to draw on that reminder.

John: Exactly. And have you— do you have any particular approaches you’ve taken with people in terms of someone out there wants to create something like this? What would you tell them to do?

Alene: I think the collage is a great way to go. Sometimes they have one crew or their captain, you know, kind of that head person that really resonates with them in a moment, and I’ll even have them just print out a picture of just that one person. Because sometimes maybe you don’t need all the different people, but you’ve got that one that’s voice is strong enough for a while. So sometimes even just the one is good.

John: Alright, anything else on saboteurs, gremlins, captains and crews?

Alene: Yeah, boy, we covered a lot today. Yeah, yeah, I think, I think that’s a good, that’s a good wrap there, is that visualization and keeping it real for us.

John: And then I guess I’ll just throw in too, once you’ve created this thing, maybe some type of a daily habit ritual or just some way to remind yourself to go back to this when you might need it. That to me is the biggest challenge is, oh, I’ve been thrashing for the last 3 hours. Why didn’t I remember to look at this during hour 1 instead of 3 hours later?

Alene: Well, but what you’re saying already is that step, right? Once upon a time, you didn’t even know what was going on and you were just acting and going, you know, going along with your day. And now, okay, you’ve cut it down. You have these spurts where it’s okay, there’s 3 hours that I lost. And then we work to the place where it’s in the moment, but already right there, you’re making changes.

John: And a gremlin just showed up on the podcast. John, you should have been able to figure that out in hour 1, not hour 3. What’s wrong with you?

Alene: Exactly. Exactly.

John: Yeah.

Alene: And then I’m your real-life crew reminding you, look, look how great you’re doing.

John: Thanks for listening to the John Poelstra Show. Notes, links, and all that other good stuff for this episode are at johnpoelstra.com/podcast. If you have questions or ideas around the podcast, send those to REDACTED.