John and Tina Robinson, CEO of WorkJoy, LLC, explore the notion of “coping” and nuances of what it means as it relates to handling situations or problems in our lives. Tina is saving the world by transforming how we think and feel about “work.”

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  • Coaching is a powerful mechanism to engage change in people’s lives
  • When coaching isn’t working, client and coach have a responsibility to name it and take a time-out
  • How would you define the notion of “coping?”
  • Coping has positive and negative sides
  • The importance of the client’s definition of a term and not the coach’s–get curious!
  • What are you choosing?
    • Not being at choice is often an indicator of something that needs to be explored
  • Take an extreme imaginary perspective that your situation has turned out amazing and work backwards from there to figure out what some constructive steps might be
  • Using personal values or life purpose as a way to explore what’s important and discover ways to rise above the situation and make it positive
  • Acknowledging and appreciating personal preferences without judgement
  • Getting unstuck requires an internal or external change
    • Internal = mindset
    • External = environment or circumstances
  • If we aren’t willing to make an internal or external change we will be stuck
  • Gradual changes or nudges might be the best approach vs. a radical transformation
  • Sometimes self-care is an important first step
  • Coaching is more than a “Jedi mind trick” and everyone should consider it, says Tina

About Tina Robinson

Attend John’s Upcoming Live Discussion

  • On May 15, 2018, at 11 a.m. pacific (2 p.m. eastern) time we’re meeting on Zoom to discuss what “coping” means to you
  • Bring a real situation you’d like to be coached by John on
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  • There will be no recording or replays due to the personal nature of this event

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Transcript

This transcript was created automatically and may contain small errors.

John: Alright, today we’re talking about a new topic, one that I’ve been throwing around with some different people, including my friend Tina Robinson from coaching classes a couple years back. So Tina, thanks for joining us today.

Tina: Thank you. I’m so excited to be here.

John: Tell us who Tina is, what Tina does, and just to kind of provide some background before we get into today’s topic.

Tina: Well, I was born on a farm. No, I won’t go back that far. So, um, John, very similar to you, and I think this is one of the, the many reasons that we sought each other out and bonded in our program, is I spent a lot of years in the corporate matrix. Um, I started off in management consulting after business school. Um, that led to several years in human resources and various leadership roles, which led to a transition to HR systems working for SAP. And then I, throughout that time, I stayed fascinated by humans in the workplace, received coaching certification along, well, the certification program, and led to my own coaching crisis where I realized I had allowed myself to get promoted into a job that no longer brought me joy at work. And so I stepped away from the corporate path and spent 2017 figuring out what next. And a big part of what next is I am now CEO of Workjoy, and our mission is to help people unleash their potential. And it’s to create happier places to work through Personalized and very deliberate coaching, creating cultures that embrace coaching, leaders who coach, and individuals who can really benefit from that. Like you, John, I was changed in a lot of ways by our program and believe everybody should have the opportunity to have a coach and to be coached.

John: Wow, I’m totally with your message here.

Tina: Okay, good. Well, good. Then I can stay on the show.

John: You can.

Tina: Excellent.

John: We— I think we met in the first class and Tina gave me the moniker of mad scientist or something on the end of the first class, and we’ve remained friends ever since.

Tina: I appreciated your healthy skepticism of coaching because when you’re new to coaching, there is this sense of, I’m watching the Jedi mind trick. And I want to— and how is this working? And why does this work? And—

John: And everything is possible, and it’s rainbows and ponies.

Tina: And you’re looking at it thinking, what Kool-Aid are you people drinking? And what’s in it? And this can’t be everything that everyone says it is. And then you realize it’s all of that and more, and that coaching is such a powerful mechanism to Encourage and, and elicit change. Yes, that’s really what it is. It’s just a mechanism. It is a tool in your toolbox, but in the right hands, just like with any tool, it is— it’s phenomenal. And it really is magic.

John: Yeah. And I will say, and also used in the right ways.

Tina: Yes,

John: it walks kind of a knife edge of kind of used in the wrong ways can be kind of hurtful, damaging.

Tina: It can be a bludgeon.

John: Yeah, not very helpful.

Tina: Yeah, and I think we’ve either deliberately or inadvertently been the recipient through all of our coach training of coaching that is a little bit too intense. And there are boundaries that, that you have to honor in coaching, and that you really have to have that foundation of trust to know when it’s okay to inch across that boundary, because you don’t want to shut the other person down. Absolutely.

John: And one— that— 2 things on that. One, I think it’s also a good reminder that if you’re being coached by someone, that it’s always— the coach has a responsibility, but you also have a responsibility to raise your hand and tap out if like something’s not working, or if the coach is driving the bus off of a cliff. Like, you are completely within your rights to say timeout. Like, This is not working. This is not going in the right direction. But I also think this is a perfect setup for today’s topic, which is the topic of coping.

Tina: Coping. Yes.

John: Because this topic, I’ve been playing with it. You and I have talked about it a couple of times.

Tina: Yeah, we have.

John: It’s not as well-formed as I would like it to be in my mind. And I’m looking forward to just kind of throwing around here, see where we get with it. And also just to kind of sneak in here too. I’m going to be doing a live video call in a couple weeks around this topic. Woohoo! So as people are listening to this, if you have a situation you’d like to bring, bring it. If you hear something that really makes you mad, bring it. If you hear something you really agree with, bring that. We’re just going to have a discussion, do some coaching, just see where it all goes. With that, the idea that I’m playing with here is And it’s come up with several clients, and it usually centers around this idea of— could— as an agenda topic of, could we create some coping strategies around a particular topic? The first time it came up, I was like, I had kind of this visceral reaction of like, coping. And, and what I’m realizing as I’m talking to you and to other people is I may be dragging in my own biases and baggage. So I want to help sort that out here today too.

Tina: Mm-hmm. A little coach the coach. I love it. This is great.

John: When I think of coping, I think of survival. I think of, I’m not really doing anything, I’m just putting up with this situation, I’m coping. Now what’s interesting is I sent this out to my list asking people what they were coping with, and I got all range of responses. Like, I had some people that were coping with the with a really significant illness. I had other people that were coping with working too many hours. Yeah. Coping with jobs. Like it ranged the gamut. And so my next thoughts on the topic were like, okay, well, yeah, I mean, coping, what I’m not talking about today is like coping with cancer or some like really, really severe illness. I wanna be really sensitive there. Although it’s possible that maybe some of what we discussed can help there. I don’t know. Where am I going with all this? I guess where I’m going— where am I going with this, Tina?

Tina: Well, what I found fascinating was how— and you, when you and I were talking earlier and you mentioned that you had looked up cope, I looked it up too. And I— what I— what I’m reading is so utterly fascinating about how we have— it’s easy to put a negative image around coping, that somehow coping sounds like we’ve copped out, we’ve given up, that we’re stagnant, that we are pulling back into our shell.

John: Yes, yeah, that’s what I had— yeah.

Tina: Yeah, that there’s all this sort of negativity, and because so much, especially in coaching land, is about, you know, crush it and go big and, you know, unleash your potential. I’m even totally guilty of it, and that’s on my business cards, is unleash your potential, unlock your performance. As if not doing that becomes something bad.

John: Mm, like there’s something wrong with you if you don’t wanna go there.

Tina: Like there’s something wrong with you. And you and I have both coped. We’ve talked long hours about—

John: Yeah, different things.

Tina: Coping, coping in corporate roles. And it wasn’t that we weren’t productive or effective or still got great performance reviews, but were we truly living our Joy? Probably not to the extent that we wanted to.

John: Right. Here’s the definition that I’ve got here in front of me. See if it reconciles with yours. Verb: to struggle or deal— well, I’m using— it’s a singular cope— to struggle or deal, especially on fairly even terms or with some degree of success. The example they give is, I will try to cope with his rudeness. Now see, I would, I would read that in here that it’s passive. I will cope with his rudeness. In other words, I will just kind of absorb it and try to make the most of it. Of— in other words, I will try not to let it get to me versus I’m going to tell this guy, you’re being a real jackass, or you’re really hurting my feelings, would you stop? I don’t see— I wouldn’t see that as coping. I would see that— but again, what, what are you thinking?

Tina: Well, I like it because it almost— one sounds like settling and one sounds like Um, again, there’s, there’s a subtle one is better than the other one. I mean, what I found on Google was to deal effectively with something difficult, and it actually— that the origin— and I don’t know if you read this, but this is so cool— that the origin of the word cope comes from the Greek kolophos, which means to blow with the fist. Which evolved into the Old French of cope, which meant a blow, or the Middle English cope, to meet in battle or come to blows.

John: Wow, you must have gone to the site for smart people because— I did.

Tina: That’s exactly—

John: I put in— I’m at dictionary.com.

Tina: Well, this is Google, you know, so read what you want into it, but it was the first thing that came up. But I thought Oh my gosh, that, that the original definition from the Greek to the Old French to the Middle English was to meet in battle. That sort of spins this negative impression of coping, which is just curling up in your shell. It’s totally the opposite. This is about dealing with something difficult and actually meeting in battle, coming to blows. So it’s fascinating, the evolution of the word.

John: So would you agree with my definition or my sense of it that when you hear cope, in other words, you get an agenda from a client that says, you know, today I want to talk about coping strategies. Do you hear that as, I want to figure out how to make this as unpainful as possible and just kind of, you know, make the most of this situation in just kind of this passive way? Or is that something I’m bringing?

Tina: Well, you bring so much, John. It’s a whole nother podcast that

John: I

Tina: don’t know. So all of you listeners, watch out for that one because that’s going to be a good one. Um, it’s gonna be just the John hour. I think you are bringing your own interpretation and your own point of view on it. I mean,

John: okay,

Tina: I coped. I was in a job where, um, where the image that I had in my head was of a tidal wave about to land on my head, and that was how I woke up on Monday mornings, was This image of a tidal wave about to engulf me. Now, was I coping? Yeah, absolutely. I was coping to get through the day and to get through it effectively because I have a work ethic, as, as do you. And, um, and I was exhausted at the end of it. So I think I bring a compassion when I hear people coping, but it’s also a trigger word to say, oh, interesting. And maybe it starts with, what does coping mean to you? Just like we’re having this discussion, what does coping mean to you as the client or you as the person being coached? And then start from that perspective.

John: That’s a perfect segue to the little vignette that I’ve created. So, so in the interest of client confidentiality and, you know, stuff that happens in sessions stays in sessions, I created a little avatar composite fake situation. There are little pieces that people might recognize, but this is totally fake. So I’ll set it up and then maybe we can kind of walk through it and apply this notion of coping, because I think this is kind of the, the notion that I’ve been playing with.

Tina: Mm-hmm.

John: So Sandy has just discovered that she must attend a 5-day business leadership retreat in Hawaii with 15 other people on her team. Many of which are half her age and love to party. Because of— because her company is cost-conscious, she must share a room with 2 other female colleagues. Every person Sandy tells about this trip is jealous.

Tina: I’m jealous.

John: No, I, I’m just reading this. I’m like, well, some of this is my own stuff weaved into it too. No matter what she shares about not wanting to go on this trip, none of her friends seem to be able to sympathize or get it. That makes Sandi feel like there’s something wrong with her. Here’s a little more about Sandi that informs her current perspective. She’s fair-skinned. She doesn’t like to spend much time in the sun, and she hates sunscreen. She’s also an introvert who gets fuel from time by herself and is horrified about the idea of having roommates on this trip. She doesn’t drink, so the whole party thing isn’t really a big draw for her. And she really loves the small town she lives in and the friends and family she has there, and she has no interest in traveling. she doesn’t really enjoy spending time with her coworkers. You know, they get along, but it’s like she doesn’t have any close friends there. And to kind of top things off, she’s been getting some feedback from her boss, Fran, that she’s not totally performing to the level that is expected. And Fran would like to see her be a little more engaged with her colleagues. And to kind of top all this off, She is the sole source of income for her 5-person family, and so she can’t afford to lose her job. Yeah. So she has come to this coaching session saying, John, please help me cope. Could we come up with some coping strategies for Hawaii? And so John hears that as, wow, given all these circumstances and how it’s being presented, Sandy is essentially saying, John, how can you help me make this as unpainful as possible so that I can just survive it for 5 days? That’s— now, granted, this is an interesting conversation because John could be bringing some of that to the situation.

Tina: Hmm.

John: So John approaches this from like, well, and I’ve been playing with this, you and I have been joking about it, is this idea of, do you want to cope with the situation or do you want to crush it? Now, it’s kind of catchy, and it’s borrowing a little bit from Gary Vee. It is drawing this notion of this extreme of, do you just want to like figure out how to cope or survive? Or what if we figured out some ways to make this amazing? And what are you choosing here? That’s another direction I think I would go to, is do you have choices here? Mm-hmm. Are you choosing anything? Or based on the information that Sandy has presented, there are no choices, so just help me survive. And always looking for that in coaching too. When there’s no choices, something’s stinky and needs to be dug into deeper.

Tina: Yeah. Hmm. I like that. And, um—

John: What do you like? Which part of that? I know it’s pretty amazing. I created it.

Tina: Well, you know, you are amazing on so many levels, which is why you allow— you know, I’m honored to be your friend. So, um, I, you know, we talked about the whole idea of crushing it, and we played with this idea of how do you switch somebody from coping to crushing. And we had talked about how if, if you’re already using the word cope, There’s— there are things swirling around you, and that to get from cope to crush may just be too big of a divide. And so how do you find— how do you find just a slightly different perspective on it? Don’t even— don’t burden Sandy with crushing it, but maybe start with what does your vision— like, what does success look like with this trip? What does You’re on the, you’re on the plane ride home and you have deemed this trip a success. What does that look like? And then also, what does it feel like to you?

John: See, I like that. And I guess in my experience, I have found more richness by pushing it to the extreme. So I would up your story by saying you’re on the plane home and you are just beside yourself with how amazing this trip was. It just— yeah, you wish that you could actually have stayed 5 more days. It blew your mind. You had so much fun. It was so satisfying on so many different levels. What happened?

Tina: Hmm. I like that. And what I think you and I are illustrating here, which, which is one of the reasons that I think it’s so fun that you have other coaches on this podcast, is every coach has a different Yes.

John: Yes.

Tina: You know, and that’s so much dependent on the client, and but it’s also dependent on everything that the coach brings to it. And so where you’re saying, I’m gonna go to the extreme, and you know, you’re, you’re sitting on the plane and you’ve, you know, and you’re bouncing because you’re so excited, versus she’s sitting on the plane and she’s just pleasantly— no, she’s happy. You know, she’s content. So, um, I think—

John: She just barely got it over the finish line.

Tina: Or she’s just content. I mean, and, and maybe that’s because I don’t necessarily bounce, you know. So I’m bringing a little bit of me into it of going, I would just be content. I would be— you know, it’s a 5-day trip. Let’s be realistic. You and I have both been on those. There’s, there’s a level of exhaustion. And so—

John: By after about day 3.

Tina: After about, you know, day 1. And you’re tired. That’s true. I mean, so there’s a reality check of it’s a slog, even if it is in Hawaii. And so, good illustration. And so, having her, what does that feel like to you? Are you happy? Are you satisfied? Do you feel like you have, I don’t know, moved the ball down the field or some other metaphor? What did you learn about yourself? What, what did you learn about your colleagues? What, what new things are you bringing into your job from this? And have her really paint this vivid picture of success so that she has something to strive for.

John: So what do you think some of those things could be?

Tina: I think she’s going to become an alcoholic. I think she’s going to get her first taste of it. I think she’s going to get her first taste of a Mai Tai, whatever those personal reasons are, and she’s going to go, oh my gosh. This is what I’ve been missing. Well, Sandy’s crazy.

John: Sandy’s gonna get bombed on the way home.

Tina: Sandy’s gonna be like stealing from the minibar on the plane home. Um, well, it depends. I mean, she, you know, she may end up getting a sunburn. Okay, how is she gonna feel about that? She’s an introvert. Um, is she proud of herself that she was able to find some downtime to recharge? I mean, introverts Introverts get, as just as you said beautifully, they get fuel, they re-energize by being alone. It doesn’t mean that they don’t like people. It’s just that it, it, whereas extroverts are fed by the engagement with others, introverts are fed by time on their own to recharge. It’s just where we get our energy from. So is she proud of herself that she was able to find that? Downtime. What was that downtime? Where did she go? Did she go to the beach? Did she go to the pool? Did she get to know her colleagues? She doesn’t really like spending time with them, but she’s also struggling with not feeling, or a perception that she’s not as engaged with the team. How has that shifted for her? Did it shift?

John: Mm-hmm.

Tina: And what did she learn about You know, there’s a reason for this business leadership, even depending on if she’s more of an intellectual and in her head. What did you learn from this? What are you excited to bring back and play with in the workspace?

John: Yeah, some places I might go is I might look— I might like challenge her on her values. Like, what are some of her values? Hmm. Or what is her life purpose, if she has one? And then Looking at the— looking through those lenses, say, okay, how could you turn those up on this trip? And maybe get creative, maybe do some really wacky brainstorming. So,

Tina: well,

John: I’m gonna fly first class, I’m gonna pay for it myself, I’m going to pay for my own room because, you know, I really, really, really need time by myself, and I’m gonna just pay for my own room.

Tina: And I’m gonna balance the perception that I’m not a team player by doing that. So there is a—

John: and maybe, yeah, and that could be a trade-off too. It could be like, well, I’m just gonna get my own room, but that’s balanced with another value of connection. I haven’t really been honoring that very well in my life, and actually not having— not being with these other people could actually play that down. So, hmm, maybe I won’t do that.

Tina: Or a value of financial security and stability. If she— if, if her If there’s a wobbliness about her job, if she feels like her— or a value around goal, um, performance or goal achievement or, you know, caring about how others perceive her, then that would be a pretty powerful value to balance with that introversion too.

John: Something else I, I played with, in fact, I recently assisted in a CTI class called Fulfillment. And in that class, they talk about— we were talking about values, and one of the suggestions was superheroes. So, you know, do you have a superhero? You know, what would Wonder Woman do if she was going on this trip?

Tina: Wow. Well,

John: you— And you were just saying you watched Wonder Woman, so—

Tina: I did. What would Wonder Woman do on this trip? Well, um, I mean, she’s an Amazonian, so I don’t think she’s gonna mind Sleeping in the same room with other women, so that’s going to be okay for her because the whole island was women. So it’s all good. She never seemed to use sunscreen, and she was pretty fair-skinned, so she’s probably going to be okay with that. So she’s as a redheaded, freckle-faced, green-eyed chick. I empathize with the sunscreen. Yeah, I think she would. She would probably find it interesting, at least the Wonder Woman in the movie that I saw, who was generally intrigued by humanity. And so it could be a really interesting place to just observe humanity, observe humanity around the pool, observe the humanity in the leadership classes.

John: Wow, that’s a powerful question. What would it look like to be intrigued by humanity? On this trip.

Tina: Yeah, yeah. And it helps that she doesn’t want to drink, you know, stay sober. It’s a lot easier to observe humanity when you’re not tipsy. So, um, yeah, I think that’s, that’s a really fun perspective.

John: The other thing I might look at here too is choices. So we were talking earlier about like what— maybe, and maybe that’s the subtlety that I’m bringing to this idea of coping when I hear it, is that there are no choices, or I’m not choosing anything. And so I think I would also push on that to say, what are you choosing? Or what are the choices that you have?

Tina: And to not, to not belittle her choice to cope. I mean, she is choosing to cope with this. She could find a reason to not go. At least she’s going.

John: Mm, nice point.

Tina: So let’s give her some credit where credit’s due of, okay, and you’re actually choosing to seek support to help you be more effective in this situation. I mean, if we go to the definition of coping, which is dealing effectively with a difficult situation, then rock on her for coping would be a success. And at least it’s a starting point that she’s choosing. I mean, she didn’t use the word resigned. She didn’t use the word deal with. So, you know, and so to not make her feel bad for, for just coping, if she just is on that plane and she’s not bouncing, but she got through it and all of her relationships are intact and she learned some things, that’s not a bad Well,

John: that takes away one of my coaching tools, which is making people feel bad. I’m kidding.

Tina: Oh, well, I know, and that’s even on your website. So yeah, you’re really gonna have to think about that

John: one. No, and I like, I like what you’re saying there. Well, it’s the acceptance thing. Well, it’s— and I’ve done some of this work with people, which is, so you don’t want to go to Hawaii? Good for you. You don’t like to go to— like, there is nothing wrong with you over the fact that you don’t want to go to Hawaii. Other people think this would be a great trip. You don’t. Good for them. Good for you. There’s no judgment toward yourself. There’s no judgment towards them.

Tina: In that vein, a lot— and all of the other things you— so you don’t drink. Okay, great. You don’t drink. That’s— so you get to order the fluffiest, fruitiest concoction that you can have. Go ahead and order the, the, the virgin piña colada. A lot of people are going to think that sounds really yummy, so no judgment there. Um, that you don’t really have an interest in traveling? Okay, cool. What do you have an interest in? That you’re an introvert? Great. You know, so I like that theme of self-acceptance for, for some of these things. Not to let her off the hook, but just to, I don’t know, almost establish an equilibrium that she can then build on to find unexpected joy in some of this.

John: Well, yeah, and for me, it’s, it’s kind of taking stock and acknowledging and then saying, okay, what do I want to do? Okay, I’m acknowledging that I don’t like to travel and that other people do. Okay, now what am I going to change? Am I going to change something on the inside or I’m going to change something on the outside? But the trap that I see people fall into is, I can’t or I don’t want to change either.

Tina: Yeah.

John: And if that’s the case, sadly, there’s not a lot to work with. Like, I haven’t had this situation with anyone, but You know, if I was in that situation, I’d say, well, then we’re kinda done here, ’cause like something has to give. Something has to change. Change inside? Okay, you wanna work on mindset stuff. So you wanna change your mindset. You know, maybe that does fall more in the realm of, of, you know, coping strategies or what, you know, how can I change my mindset around this? We totally do coaching around that. Or it’s an outside thing. How can I change my environment in some way? How can I tweak it? How can I come up with something creative?

Tina: Mm-hmm. And it doesn’t have to be a major shift. That’s also the thing is this can be a nudge. This doesn’t have to be a major transformation, a major transformation of a, of something just, just for this trip. So it can just be, what are you going to shift to achieve your desired success from this trip? You know, maybe it’s a small shift, like you hate sunscreen. I get it. Trust me. Um,

John: So you find something you like.

Tina: Find something, yeah. Go out there and go and try, you know, give yourself permission to buy a few different kinds and experiment and, you know, try the spray-on and try the organic stuff at Whole Foods or find one that works for you and give yourself permission to, I don’t know, find one that doesn’t frustrate you and just, and then sort of get a kick out of using it.

John: And I think these can be building blocks too. I like what you said about that, a small shift or a nudge. Sometimes I think— well, I don’t know, I guess I could go either way on this. Sometimes I think we do need to blow things up and do radical things, but most often they are kind of those, those slow changes. Okay, I’m gonna try something different on this trip. Oh, I learned a few things. I’m gonna change a few things on the next trip. And then it’s 5 or 6 trips later and it’s like, wow, I’m totally crushing it on this travel thing. I love to travel now. I never thought this would happen, but this has happened because I’ve made these gradual shifts over time.

Tina: Yeah. And it can just— or, um, I’m an introvert and work, work trips frustrate me, but I also know, you know, maybe she loves the pool or maybe she loves the, the beach or she loves to work out. Okay. Consciously look at that time as your decompression time. Really use that time to recharge.

John: Yeah, how are we gonna make sure that we get in a workout every single day? Like, what, what needs to happen? And it’s so funny, I was out of town this past weekend. Again, I was at this coaching, assisting with a coaching class, and I felt like such a dork, but one night I sat down and I said, okay, If I want to have any semblance of time for myself and like some type of quiet morning routine, I created a timeline.

Tina: Of course you did.

John: And I felt like such a dork doing it, even though nobody could see me do it. I just thought, no, I can’t. Like, I learned the hard way the first morning that I had no time. So what do I need to do? Okay, if I need to leave where I’m staying, I need to be at this place, the hotel, by 8:30. That means I need to start walking by 8:15. That means I need to by 8. So And I just worked backwards like, well, do I really want to get up at 5:30? Well, I’ll probably be awake anyway, so whatever. But I need to get out of bed instead of laying there for an hour and doing nothing.

Tina: I think that’s great. Yeah, I remember you and I took a walk one day.

John: Before one of the classes.

Tina: Before one of the classes. Yeah, so

John: exercise is great

Tina: and self-care, you know. So there— I remember when I was working with one of my coaches and I was in such an emotionally frazzled coping state and that I just demanded that she coach me and fix me. And she would say to me— and what she was asking me was—

John: I love that

Tina: echo. Yeah. So what she focused on was, what did you have to eat today? And did you go for a walk today? And she would ask me these really basic questions about self-care. And I was so overwhelmed by all the things going on that I couldn’t see it for what it was. But what she was recognizing was you have to physically ground yourself and you have to get into a physical place where you’re— to allow your body and your mind to catch up with each other. Because your brain is so mired in the situation that you’re in, you have to sort of ground it. And so this is going to be possibly an anxiety-inducing trip for her. How do you also keep her grounded? What grounds her? Is it a walk? Is it the beach? Is it— she loves to take baths. Okay, sharing a room, that might be hard. Is there a hot tub there? What’s her favorite food that she doesn’t get to indulge in very much? Can she make sure that she indulges in some things there? But, To pay attention to the physical body as much as the mental body.

John: And my encouragement too would be, as easy it could be to get very, very tactical right away, I’ve seen some of the biggest outcomes, like biggest, most unexpected outcomes come in working with people when we start more at the fundamentals. What are your values?

Tina: Who

John: are the people on your board of directors? What advice would they give you? Um, how does this fit with your life purpose? Like kind of these bigger, broader, starting there, and then the tactical things that come from those can be so much different than just starting off with, okay, I have to go on this problem— I have to— I’m sorry, I have to go on this trip, I have a problem, what am I gonna do? Yep. So what haven’t we covered yet?

Tina: I think that we covered a lot. I think that, that we talked a little bit about how there are some negative or some stereotypes and some perceptions of coping that may or may not be true.

John: Mm-hmm.

Tina: And that it needs— that we really should start with, what does coping mean to you? And that even looking at definitions and even going back to ancient definitions, that there is something almost noble about coping. It’s your ability to— deal effectively with a difficult situation or to even face a difficult situation effectively and to get through it. So how do we champion the nobility in coping and then recognize that it’s a path to crushing it? And that path is going to be different and move at a different pace for everybody too. And Success can be something as small as trying a piña colada and having pool time and being pleasantly surprised by all of your colleagues, to making these amazing connections and vowing to return to Hawaii every 6 months because it was so earth-shatteringly fabulous. So yeah, I think it’s great, and I think it’d be fascinating to get a larger group together to talk about what does cope mean to you. Is it a 4-letter word or is it something more than that?

John: Yeah, and I, and I’m hoping too that there will be enough people and people that bring real situations that we can play with this. Sometimes it’s hard to do justice to a composite or a fake situation. So, uh, yes. Alright, well, last call for parting thoughts.

Tina: I think it’s great. I think it’s fun. And I would encourage everybody listening to, to really think about coaching. Coaching is— it’s a mechanism for change. And it is a tool in your toolbox. And whether that means you leverage external coaches, like what John and I do. If you are a leader of people within your own organization, that you step up and you learn how to be a more effective coach. If it’s seeking out coaches within your own company, or a combination of all 3, I would really encourage everybody to just— coaching is more than a Jedi mind trick. It is a powerful mechanism for change that— is, uh, worth some exploration.